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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/28/2014 09:29 AM, Erik Schnetter
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADKQjjeS7LPvcQY-kAX0BgqZFJ802ZZSX6NS86LCr5Un=ROZcw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Steve
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Simfactory can do both. Disabling certain thorns is used
for exceptions, e.g. if a machine is currently broken and can
currently not build a particular thorn. If this thorn is
"unimportant" (e.g. pciutils), then most likely no one will
notice. Of course, disabling BSSN in this way would not be a
good idea.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Does Simfactory enable commented out thorns, or does it add them?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Steve<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADKQjjeS7LPvcQY-kAX0BgqZFJ802ZZSX6NS86LCr5Un=ROZcw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-erik
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:24 AM,
Steven R. Brandt <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sbrandt@cct.lsu.edu" target="_blank">sbrandt@cct.lsu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>I think that processing things inside comments is
confusing (if that's what's happening), unless
there's some special tag in the comment, e.g. @@.
Wouldn't it make more sense for SimFactory to accept
the list of uncommented thorns, and disable if
appropriate?<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Steve
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 05/27/2014 12:01 PM, Ian Hinder wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5"> <br>
<div>
<div>On 27 May 2014, at 17:23, Erik Schnetter
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:schnetter@cct.lsu.edu"
target="_blank">schnetter@cct.lsu.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">On Tue, May 27,
2014 at 10:51 AM, Frank Loeffler <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:knarf@cct.lsu.edu"
target="_blank">knarf@cct.lsu.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
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solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On Tue, May 27, 2014 at
09:46:29AM -0500, Frank Loeffler
wrote:<br>
> Wouldn't that mean that every
checkout on such a machine fails,
because<br>
> simfactory would
unconditionally add these thorns
to the thornlist,<br>
> regardless of whether they
are actually present or not?<br>
<br>
</div>
Replying to myself: Is this really
what Simfactory does - or does it<br>
only "enable" these thorns when they
are present in the thornlist, but<br>
commented out? If the latter is the
case I think it should be fine,<br>
although it might still confuse
people that don't even look at the<br>
simfactory configuration of the
machine, and use a thornlist with
such a<br>
thorn commented out, but not
present. Could we somehow let these
users<br>
give a hint why Cactus fails with
'thorn not found', when the original<br>
thornlist clearly commented it out?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As per our previous discussion,
the standard ET thorn list will (and
this is the current state)</div>
<div>1. Check out all CUDA and OpenCL
thorns, on ALL machines</div>
<div>2. Disable all CUDA and OpenCL
thorns when building Cactus, on ALL
machines</div>
<div>If you are using this standard
thorn list directly, then this is
the only reasonable way to go; other
choices don't make sense.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Simfactory pre-processes thorn
lists, in the same way it
pre-processes option lists and
parameter files, expanding
variables. It is important to have
such a pre-processing step, since it
avoids having to do this manually.
This is how Simfactory "fixes"
things for various machines, it is
an important part of how it works.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Blue Waters supports both CUDA
and OpenCL. We now have two options:</div>
<div>1. Use the standard ET thorn list
there, i.e. disabling CUDA and
OpenCL by default</div>
<div>2. Automatically enable CUDA and
OpenCL thorns</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As others mentioned, it does not
make sense to enable CUDA and OpenCL
everywhere, since it would not be
supported everywhere. Enabling the
thorns but adding a mechanism that
turns these thorns into dummy thorns
that do nothing also doesn't make
sense -- think of a BSSN thorn
written in CUDA; turning it into a
dummy thorn that does nothing on a
non-CUDA machine would just mean
that BSSN evolution doesn't happen
there. There are machines that
support CUDA and there are machines
that don't, and if you want to use
CUDA then you will need to get an
error message when you try to use a
machine that doesn't support CUDA.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So -- how do we want to support
CUDA on Blue Waters?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Ask people to manually change
the thorn list, in effect asking
them to maintain one thorn list per
machine</div>
<div>2. Let Simfactory do this, since
it already knows what works on what
machine and what doesn't</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't think there are any other
choices.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In case you are wondering: What I
propose won't break checking out
thorns on any machine, and won't
break the build on any machine, and
won't require people to do special
things for special machines. I
regularly build on many machines,
and I do so in an automated manner,
and I don't maintain per-machine
thorn lists or parameter files.
Simfactory has an MDB that encodes
all the machines' peculiarities, and
the information there is sufficient
to use all of our machines
efficiently, and in an automated
manner.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is the argument of "this
would surprise people". If we are
worried about people being surprised
that a CUDA thorn can't be activated
on a non-CUDA machine, then maybe we
need to raise our expectations a
bit. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have been "surprised" in the past when
I saw a thorn commented out in the
thornlist, and Cactus trying to build it
because SimFactory has enabled it on a
particular machine. I had no idea what was
going on, and couldn't believe that
simfactory was doing this when I found that
it was. I think if something is commented
out, it should be ignored. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maybe we could add a feature to the
Cactus thornlist language for "included if
available"? e.g.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>? Arrangement/Thorn</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SimFactory could expand this, and Cactus
would ignore it by default. This is similar
to the existing "!" comments which are used
by GetComponents, and ignored by Cactus. At
least this way, it doesn't look like it has
been commented out.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div>-- </div>
<div>Ian Hinder</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://numrel.aei.mpg.de/people/hinder"
target="_blank">http://numrel.aei.mpg.de/people/hinder</a></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
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-- <br>
Erik Schnetter <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:schnetter@cct.lsu.edu" target="_blank">schnetter@cct.lsu.edu</a>><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/personal/eschnetter/"
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