#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Keywords: | ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- I'm currently helping someone debug an issue on the Einstein Users' mailing list. Since the mailing list is set to "reply to sender" instead of "reply to all", the discussion has separated into three threads at the moment:
- an incomplete, public discussion on the list - a private discussion between the user and Frank Löffler, about which I only learned by change (and where I don't know what was actually said) - a private discussion between the user and myself, so that all the help I'm offering won't be logged and won't help anybody else.
Please set the lists to "reply to all". I'm aware of all the discussions and arguments about whether this is a legal or moral thing to do, but it would undoubtedly be a very helpful thing for us.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by knarf):
I know that his is a long-going discussion (for the record, see e.g. http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html). I am on the side to leave the reply-to field alone, to let the email client handle this. Usually this is done by an 'reply to author' and 'reply to all' button/key/thing.
In short: In my opinion we should not do this.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by eschnett):
Do you have another suggestion to address the issues I raised above?
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by eric9):
If we changed the reply-to field, would that make it impossible to reply directly to the author without knowing their email? In that case I would be against the change. That being said, I would prefer to have the default be to reply to the entire mailing list, with an easy option to reply only to the sender.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by knarf):
Replying to [comment:2 eschnett]:
Do you have another suggestion to address the issues I raised above?
I guess the best solution would be to teach people how to use their clients properly. Are there really clients which do not offer both reply possibilities (all and sender)? Even google mail has this, and you can also make it the default.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by knarf):
There is one case where of course reply-to is the right solution: mailing lists like commits or trac. They don't have valid senders in most cases, and discussions should not happen on those lists. Here a forced reply-to is the best way to move a possible discussion to another place.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by hinder):
In my email client, I can either click Reply or Reply All. Neither of these do what I want when the Reply-To is set to the original sender.
Reply: Sends the email to the original sender - in the vast majority of cases I want to send to the list (and we want to encourage discussion on the list)
Reply-All: Sends the email to the list AND the original sender. I don't know if this is just an Apple Mail quirk, but it means that when I receive such emails, they do not have the List-ID header and so don't get filtered into the right folder, meaning they stay in my inbox and are separated from the main thread.
If Reply-To is set to the list, I can just click Reply and all is well. If I want to send just to the original sender, it means a bit of copy and paste, but that is the rarer case.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by knarf):
Setting reply-to to the sender wasn't proposed. I can see that reply-all creates the problem that the sender is also CCed. Sometimes this is good because the sender doesn't have to be on the mailing list. This can especially be the case for the users mailing list. I guess your email client doesn't have a list-reply option (mine does), which does exactly what you want: it replies, to the list only?
Regardless - those two mails have the same message-id. An email client should be smart enough to connect the two, don't you think?
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by hinder):
As far as I know, the mail server at the ISP will recognise that the message ids are the same and won't deliver it twice. I certainly don't get the message twice, and a little googling reveals that this is a known problem. I agree that a Reply-To-List option in all email clients would be good, but since not all email clients have that, I don't think we can make it part of the solution. Apple Mail does not have it.
Setting Reply-To to the mailing list would solve this problem, encourage discussion on the mailing list, won't need us to "educate" users about an obscure feature of their mail client, won't need people to change their mail client in order to use the list conveniently, and will work for everyone.
#50: Mailing lists should "reply to all" by default -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: eschnett | Owner: Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: Other | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -----------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Comment (by knarf):
Setting reply-to would limit users that actually know how to use their clients. Not setting it seems to limit (in the sense that some learning is required) not that experienced users. No solution is right for everyone. Understanding the difference between 'reply to' and 'reply to all' cannot be that hard, and I don't know of a mail client which doesn't have both options.
As to reply-to-list - that can actually be a problem if not used in the right way. Lists like users are open also for non-members (moderated because of spam, but open). Replying only to the list would leave the original sender without reply. Reply-to-all id probably the best fit for our needs.
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